Large Diameter HDPE Pipe

Piping the Future: The Rise and Demand of Large Diameter Pipes

Join us as we delve into the burgeoning significance of large diameter pipes in shaping the infrastructure landscape of tomorrow. As urbanization accelerates and infrastructure demands escalate, these pipes emerge as pivotal components, facilitating efficient water distribution, sewage systems, and energy transmission. With advancements in materials and manufacturing processes, HDPE large diameter pipes offer enhanced durability, performance, and cost-effectiveness. This webinar explores how these pipes are not only meeting current needs but also addressing future challenges, from environmental sustainability to resilient infrastructure development. Join us as we navigate the evolving role of large diameter HDPE pipes in shaping our collective future.

Transcript

0:02

Afternoon, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Cisco Insights. My name is Gary Bouvet. I'll be your host today for this February leap year edition of Insights. What a pleasure that you're joining us today. Thank you very much. We're going to be talking a lot of things, the large diameter HDPE pipe. And with that, let's go through a set of instructions really quick. Want to make sure that for all of you who are on here joining us today that your video and audio are turned off, which we've done automatically. We can't hear you. So it improves our quality on the presentation. If you've got any trouble issues with getting connected, getting on accessing the webinar, please go to our chat box and we'll try to help you out with any of those technical issues. And if you've got a specific question, which we hope there's a lot of them regarding the topic that you want to try to have answered today. I've got my good friend Jeremy Becker back here behind the scenes. He's going to be fielding all those questions and responding to those as well as we'll try to respond to some of those in live fashion. But use that in the Q&A box that you see down at the bottom of your screen. So those are the basic steps of the what to do on this webinar. And I am very pleased to introduce my good friend, long time colleague Mike James to the show. Mike, welcome to Go Insights. This is your first you know, I know the big guy. You had to do that. Gary Gosh darn it. Yeah, we've done a lot of webinars, but thank you. Yes, I'm honored to be with you today, Gary, thanks. It is. It is a pleasure. I've done a lot of traveling with you over the years and and getting to do this show with you. For those that are on the show today, Mike, give them a little intro and your background, who you are and and your experience with the topic that we're covering today. Yep. Sounds good. My name is Mike James. I live in Tucson, Arizona, by the way. It's 70 degrees today in the desert, so it's beautiful. We love it. Been in the pipe industry for probably 30 some years. About the same as you, Gary, right? Yes. Able to travel the world and see a lot of different things and the pipeline industry. And and I'm pleased to see you all these people on infrastructure superheroes joining us today. So it's it's cool to see but glad. Glad to be talking about large diameter pipe. Well, we're glad you're here, Mike. And we've got we've got a lot of great things to talk about today. So with that, we're going to go ahead and get dive right in to this topic today. Mike. Sounds good. You know, when we define large diameter and you and I have been doing this a long time, right? And when I started in the industry over 30 years ago, large diameter pipe, I mean, a 36 inch pipe job was was huge, right? It was a large job. That's not the case anymore. 30, 36 inch pipe, pretty, pretty commonplace. We're talking exercises, you know, 54 and 63 inch are very common. And we had some limitations with wall thicknesses and so forth. Mike, give us a little bit more background on that and kind of how we've evolved into some of the sizes we're seeing now. Yeah, I think you're right, Gary. I remember as a young guy in the business buying a 36 inch fusion machine for the first time, and that was like a massive deals like buying your first house. Well, today those are just commonplace, right? I mean, we've got we've got equipment today that handles much larger diameter pipe because the pipe capabilities have gotten so much bigger today. So wall thickness is, as you mentioned a second ago, good example. You know, a two or three inch wall thickness that's still pretty heavy. While you can handle a lot of pressure. But as your pipe diameters get bigger, you know, those wall thicknesses get bigger. So the resins and the extrusion equipment, all of that is much better today to be able to manufacture much, much thicker walls and also larger diameters. So for years, Gary, you know this in the U.S. and North America, you know, 54 and 63, it's were kind of our max capabilities that's still commonly produced really all over North America. But what I've seen and what we're going to talk about today is, man, the capabilities around the globe have gone up so much more. And we're starting to see that in North America, which is pretty cool. Yeah. And, you know, there were limitations in a lot of things, right? Whether it be of fusion equipment, the ability of manufacturers to produce wall thicknesses necessary to handle the specific pressures. Right. So even when we were in the 54 and 63 inch pipe, we were dealing with what we considered thin wall, right. Low bars from the pressure capacity. And now that's all improved. And we'll talk more a little bit more about how that has improved. Yeah, I know. We we have some we have some of our pipe partners on on this on this webinar joining us. And we have some from in North America and also around the world as well. And it's just cool to see because we've got we've got good quality manufacturers on with us as well as lots of engineers and contractors. And and I'm just looking at the list of people. It's it's impressive. Thanks, everybody for for joining us. Yeah. And Mike, you know, we see a lot of various applications that are bringing in that are using larger and larger diameter HTP pipes. You know, the first one is, you know, municipal water supply and distribution, right? We've got to get water from point A to point B, You and I both know how how precious water is becoming across the country, as have people have continued to deal with the, you know, drought scenario shows and, you know, irrigation evaporation and all those different things. Right. So water municipal water supply is continuing to evolve. Well, if is our most precious resource and I'm saying that living in the desert, right, I know how valuable it is. And how important it is out west for sure. But even, you know, really across the country, it's it's hyper important. And then you go around the world, you go to the Middle East, and that is I mean, it's it's extremely important for everybody. So we've got to have it some not losing water and having a leak free system. I mean it's it's great that HDPE pipe can do that. So that's that's definitely a big market for us. Absolutely. And then conversely, the wastewater, right, the return of that same water that's been used. Now we got to capture it and reuse it, but there's another opportunity. Industrial applications that we're seeing. We're going to talk more about some of these different different projects. This just gives some people an idea of where we're seeing this pipe going in marine applications. Right? We've got a a neat project that was a marine float and same type of a project. I think the largest solid oil pipe in North America was was that project that we'll talk about. Right. And, you know, not only just pipe conveyance like we're seeing things, you know, structure related, right? Whether you can see some pictures, some unique fittings that have to go along with these piping systems. Tell us more about what you've seen with your experience traveling the globe. Yeah, I think, you know, domestically and and also internationally, you know, we're talking about two types of pipe. We're talking about solid wall pressure pipe that you see in a lot of these pictures we're showing. But you also see in three of these photos what we call profile wall pipe. And profile wall pipe today can be made in really large diameters, up to four meters in diameter globally, domestically, maybe a little bit less than that. But we use that pipe. It's all low pressure gravity. It's typically gasket ID, but some people are actually. But fuzing profile water pipe together and then we use it as you see in some of these fabricated structures. We use it also for slip line in culverts in our snap type division, we use it with spiral lights, but there's a lot of wet wells out there that are maybe concrete that can be. HDPE There's a lot of geothermal vaults that are made out of profile wall pipes. And then that bottom picture in the right corner was a really cool project at Lake Kivu and in Africa, where we did a big methane extraction project. I think we're going to show some more slides on that. So solid wall pressure pipe profile wall pipe as well. Yeah. And you know, these are continuing to grow and evolve just about every time I think I've seen it. All we get, we get something new and unique that comes comes across our plate. So and I don't think you see that changing any time soon. And you mentioned geothermal vaults, even the culvert, relining and rehab. So even the landfills, we're seeing some of that large diameter pipe or the those profile for tanks and condensate samples and in different things, a lot of different avenues looking at corrosion resistant leak free pipes for those systems. You know, the importance in infrastructure, Mike, I mean, there's you know, all of those markets that we've you've mentioned have different needs, right? Have different priorities associated with them. And some of the the key elements of polyethylene lend themselves very well to meeting. Those require amounts that we talk about with polyethylene, the flexibility, the leak free. You mentioned the durability, all of those things. Polyethylene really provides a great benefit to them. Yeah. Carry out you know our infrastructure is in need of some serious repair, right? I mean, we've got some really aging infrastructure. We also have a tremendous amount of growth. I was in Phenix this week and that city is just blowing up. Right. There's there's lots of cities like that. So it's two things. It's aging infrastructure that needs repair. And then it's all of these new these new infrastructure projects going on, which is great. We need it. I guess the early message I would like to say that everybody on this call is if you know all of the benefits of HTP and probably everybody on this already does because you're already using it, you suspect it, you've designed it for small or medium diameters, those same benefits exist today. We're just going to go a lot bigger in diameter. We want to make sure you know what the capabilities are today in North America. Right. And you've talked about in, you know, water conservation. Yeah, we touched on it earlier. You know, we see this growth continuing, this need for larger diameter conveyance pipes that have the benefits that polyethylene brings. And one of the key initiatives is, you know, from the conservation side is the ESG. And I know you've been really kind of tied in to that over the last couple of years. You want to maybe touch on what that is. Some people in the audience may not be aware of what those initiatives are. Yeah, I will. I mean, and I think, you know, to to jump on that a little bit before that, the global pipe market is massive. I mean, this is 2021 data. It's $127 billion in pipe. You know, it's it's just massive. It's growing every year. It shows growth there. Really what's growing even quicker is the demand for plastic pipes is growing even faster than that. And we know that here in the U.S. and in Canada, in North America, the p e Alliance, and people will talk about this as well. I think David Fink's on the call. We're taking market share. Right. And there's a reason we're doing this because we offer a good, better solution really with that leak free. We've got corrosion resistant all of those things. And that ties into the ESG initiatives that are out there. And if you don't know what that is, you will. I'm sure everybody on this call probably has heard ESG, whether you're a believer in it or not, it's here. It's not going anywhere. I think HDPE pipes solves and helps a lot of those initiatives. ESG is taking responsibility for a more sustainable world. Every large corporation, probably every engineering firm, everybody's being faced with it, including us. And if we can help with that, which we can, I think our pipes provide a lot of solutions towards ESG. Very good. Thank you, Mike. That's yeah, that's not going away. The demand for that. Let's touch on. When we get into large diameter pipe, there are some things that you have to be considered and looked at when you're looking at a large, large diameter project. Now, let's start with the transportation. Now, you know, back several years ago, back when both you and I were getting started in this, if you needed a large diameter pipe outside the range of what manufac customers could produce, you know, in their extrusions. Right. That pipe was towed. Right. Mike, you've seen I've seen these pictures of pipe being tugged across the ocean, different places. That's that's changed as more companies have opened up extrusion capabilities, being able to to transport it via trucks. But there's still a lot of logistical issues that you got to handle with this large diameter pipe. Yeah, there is gear. I think what I would say is there's there's a handful of manufacturers that can do it that can extrude into into a body of water and you can tow long legs right to to your project site. That's not for every site. Right. It's difficult. It came at some cost. There's some big benefits when you have some projects maybe that are near a coastal area, maybe a water intake or an outfall line. But really most of the projects are going to be handled by by normal freight, normal trucks. Again, back to the ESG, our pipes are much lighter than other pipes. I think I mentioned earlier a 15 foot section of 120 inch RCP weighs £75,000. Think about what that cost of transport versus a lighter weight longer piece of HDPE. We can supply 50 feet and it's going to weigh half that, right? So there's some savings there, fuel savings, all of that. The fact is, in North America today, we're producing much larger diameter pipes. We can get it to anywhere you want all over North America. We've done that across the country, up into Canada. You can get one, maybe two sticks of pipe on there. We're going to maximize it as much as we can and get it to your site safely. Yep. Yep. But that is always a big concern. It's, you know, it's a lot of trucks when we start talking some of these big jobs. Mike, I'm going to stop for a second here. We've got a question that came in from Leo asking about the longevity and what would be the typical cause of failure in HDPE Pipe compared to traditional construction and materials like concrete or metallic and Great, great question. Leo Thanks. I will let you answer it. Mike And then of course Me I'll, I'll add in when you forget something or miss something on it. Yeah, I think the first thing I would say, Leo, is, you know, we offer a really good solution with HDPE Pipes. It's not for every single project out there. So we need to make sure that we fit into the parameters that we can handle safely. Right? The temperature range, the pressure range or whatever materials are flowing through it. We want to make sure that a pipeline gets designed correctly and we can help maybe vet that and double check those things with you as well. I mean, Pipeline has got to get installed correctly. So I think what I would say is obviously the specifications have to be right. The construction methods have to be right. We're going to talk about construction methods here in a minute. Gary, The fusion process and all of that has to be done correctly as well. If you do all of those things correctly. HDPE is very, very resilient and our failure rate is very, very low. Again, it's got to be in the right applications, which we can serve a lot of them. But that's, that's what I would say. Gary, what about you? Yeah, I mean, you know, if you're comparing to metal and concrete. Leo You know, the typical failures in those types of materials are really more, you know, corrosion related. That is a non, a non-factor with the, with the polyethylene. Those are gone away using the polyethylene and a typical, as Mike said, a typical failure is either third party damage, which can happen with polyethylene, but also maybe an incorrect fusion or something to that. But again, if you do the right steps, we're going to talk about some of those quality control measures a little bit later. You're not going to have those issues and you're let's think about it. Go ahead, Mike. Our our pipe gets used when other pipes fail, right? I'm thinking about like three PCB jobs that we've done here recently up in Seattle, down in Florida, here in Arizona, where I live in Tucson, those types of failed. They just they just didn't stand up to to whatever was running through them. And we've been able to go in there, slip line those pipelines. Right. There's trash list technology, pipe bursting, slip lining. The Murphy Pipeline does a great job out there right of compression fit. So we're actually replacing and fixing a lot of damaged in repair broken pipelines. Absolutely. Yeah. Great question. Well, thanks, folks. Keep those coming in. And then like, you know, other things with these large diameters is, you know, the the preparation, the excavation, you're going to have those with with any material regardless of what you use. So really nothing's different there. But you touched on it, the weight of the pipe itself, that's polyethylene is significantly lighter weight than the traditional construction materials that they're using now. It's still super heavy, right? I mean, you're not going to be able to go lift up the end, you and I are. But being able to handle maybe even with less equipment on the jobsite than what you would traditionally use with those other materials. The gear. And you've been in the gym because you and I were in it last week. I mean, I might be able to lift some of that pipe with with my f45 workouts. But, you know, really what what you're seeing here in these pictures is is everyday construction equipment that's on site. Normal excavators backing works, right. Our our friends in Tulsa evacuee works doing a vacuum lift you know whether it's a forklift or reach lift. You see a crane. That picture in the top middle of it actually is a new photo we actually got today. That's a that's a project in Romania, actually. Thank you, Richard Coombs, for sharing that. That's a project that Jose, our friends in Spain are doing in Romania. That's 2000 millimeter pipe right there. They do show some cranes lifting that, but that's a big section, right? But really, our pipe is light. It's going to be it's going to be your normal everyday construction equipment out there that you can use What you typically don't need is side booms and things like that. They're they're lifting steel pipe or maybe some heavy concrete pipe. So I think those methods that you see there are really, really common now. And then, you know, when we're talking installation, right? I mean, one of the other things that goes into that is a lot of the joining of the polyethylene pipe is done outside the trench above ground. And so maybe your trench excavation can be smaller because you're not having to go in and have people and equipment inside, you know, pushing pipe ends together and so forth. So there are some, you know, other benefits there from the installation and construction method. Yeah. I think what I would tell everybody is just be aware, if you're engineering a project or constructing one, you know, your normal construction methods for maybe shorter, heavier lengths of pipe that you're used to doing down in the ditch. You know, today we can do most of that with HDPE above ground, longer legs, fuze joints, right? Weld up a lot of sections and then lift that down into in the ditch. That's that's a little bit of difference apples and oranges. What I would say is if you need help with that, reach out to us. We can walk you through the different construction methods, the different fusion equipment, the different in ditch capability equipment, things like that. You know, flanges are spooling and fittings slightly different, but actually I think it speeds up your project site much, much, much more. And it's going to save you some money on a construction start. Good, Mike, thanks. Got another question here. Mike from Alan. One of the largest issues I've experienced in the past projects is large diameter is coming out of round under its own weight. What can be done to minimize this, especially if it needs to be stored for a period of time? Well, that's a great question, Alan. And one of the things I think I had a picture earlier. I go back right there. Yeah, right there on that picture on the far right. Alan And you'll see that kind of cribbing, that protective on the insides of the pipe that would be on both ends of the pipe that can be used in polyethylene being a thermoplastic is going to expand and contract sitting on a job site. Right. And that's going to, it's going to sag. This helps keep those ends somewhat round. And the the real benefit comes when you put it in the fusion machine and you've got the hydraulic clamping capabilities to help re round that pipe and get it back to shape. So when we join those ends together, we don't have an issue. Yeah, Gary, there's some projects that we've done, maybe some offshore projects, maybe if you're sinking pipe, right when you sink pipe, it goes under some stresses there. A lot of stresses actually. Amichai Ocean Engineering, when they engineer a project that goes offshore, whether it's an intake or offshore line, they'll they'll recommend cradles like so you store that, store your pipe on cradles out in the field and you don't want to stack, you don't want to stack too high, you don't want to compress the pipe. It is thermoplastic. I think if you handle that from the factory to the trucks to storing it correctly in the field, you're not going to have any issues. Yeah, great, great question, Alan. And folks, keep those questions rolling in. That's that's what we're here to do. Mike We got another one that came in. Collin asked, What are the most economical and efficient methods to join large diameter? HDPE With metallic piping? So, Mike, you want to start with that one or. Yeah, I think, I think if you're going to connect to a dissimilar material, there's mechanical fittings out there. Gary Whether it's a a flange or some sort of a mechanical coupling that will connect to dissimilar material, there's yeah, I think those are the two methods I can think of offhand. What what are you thinking about? Yeah, I mean, there's even some other mechanical coupling manufacturers that we've used that that can make more. It's like a, like a compression type. You may, you're going to need a stiffness or probably on the inside of the the polyethylene. So it may be a specialty type of application. It's not going to be something that's sitting on the shelf. But there are options and supplier manufacturers, partners that we can work with that can provide transitions from one material to the other. But flange is by far probably the most common method that I've seen. You'll see that in some of our pictures here. When you're connecting to a valve or maybe a different a different pipeline for whatever reason, those are those are pretty common in right. All right. Great. We'll keep moving on here when we talk about, you know, polyethylene Mike, you and I preach the benefits. We've touched on them and in multiple facets already. Just as a reminder, the key characteristics for polyethylene, right, is, you know, flexibility. This pipe, you know, has a bend radius. It's why it's used in trench list application. Some of those you've mentioned directional drilling, pipe bursting, slip lining, the hydraulics, the C factor, it's 150 and that's constant for the life of the pipe so it doesn't deteriorate over time. The corrosion resistance, the durability, it's a very durable product. You you've got mining projects, Mike, out there in the out west that you've seen this pipe dragged around and moved on job sites and exposed to the sunlight for 30, 40 years, right? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think our pipe gets used in the harshest environments. I mean, aggregate plants, mining for sure. Gold, copper, any hard rock mining, lithium mining today, by the way, which is very popular. But really in any of the most challenging applications, we do a lot of directional drilling, right? We supply pipe for directional drilling. Water pipe comes in really handy for that. And then a lot of it they transition back to maybe conventional materials when they do that. And I'm like, just use our pipe for the whole thing and you'd be good. But our pipe is is really good. The flexibility, as long as you understand how to handle the flexibility, it's fine. But if you're going to put it up in a pipe rack or something like that, just be aware. You're going to need to to handle that correctly as well. So we're seeing that as well. But there's a lot of good advantages. I think the biggest ones are, of course, hydraulic flow, corrosion resistant. The Fuzed joint is the, in my opinion, the best thing about our pipe. Absolute. Really? Well, we touched on, you know, these production advancements, why we're able to make you know, why are the manufacturers able to produce larger diameter pipe than they than they used to, you know, 15, 20, 30 years ago when we came into the business. Mike, you know, we hear this term, you know, low sub, low slump resins. You want to expand upon that for some in the audience. You may not be as familiar with that terminology. Yeah, I'll give you what I can on it. I mean, it's pretty simple. The resins that we have today are P 4710. They've been advanced a couple of times already. And in our careers, Gary, they're going to continue to advance, right? The next generation of resin will be out there soon. Same thing if you go outside of North America. P 100 and even some of the advancements they've had there, they started out with P ATP 100. When pipe has gotten bigger and also thicker, they've come up with some low slump resins that actually extrude better and hold the roundness better when you're extruding the pipe. So we're able to maintain the wall thicknesses and also able to extrude much larger diameters. So just know that the the capabilities are there, the extrusion equipment has gotten better as well. It's quicker, it's faster is more dynamic than it used to be. Those two advancements together have brought us to where we are today. Yep, very good. And you know, when we talk, you know, piping systems, right? We're not just talking pipe. There's a whole world of fittings that need to go with it too, to make a system complete, you know, whether that's elbows or tees or you need some unique, you know, construction aspects that we have to do. And the capabilities are there to manufacture and produce these large diameter fittings. And you could see quite a few examples here of some of the some of the fittings that are you can see produced in the large diameter pipe sizes. That's a sexy slide. I like that one there. That's cool. There's yeah, what I would say, I mean if you're going to put a pipeline in, you obviously have to have the accessories and the equipment to go with it. Right. So the capabilities today to produce all of these large diameter fittings has gotten much better. Right? So the pipe first, the fittings and the fabrication has to come with it. And of course, the fusion process is next as well. I think you're going to show that coming up as well. Yeah. You know, and here's some, you know, some different fittings, right? Some intake. Those are diffusers, right. Going on. And outside. Off coming off the capsule. Yep, Yep. Those are coming in. So and you can see the flexibility in that pipe right out behind in the foreground of the background of that picture snaking around in the in the water. Yeah. So custom fab, we showed some of those pictures earlier degree, some of the geothermal vaults and some of the methane intake extraction devices we built. Really anything you can kind of draw or design, we probably can make that out of. HTP Right. Yeah, that's the fun part, right? That's some of the cool things that that we get to be involved in. And you mentioned fusion equipment, Mike and you got to be able to put the pipe together. As you said this the way that we joint HDPE Pipe is probably one of the single most paramount benefits of polyethylene providing that monolithic joint that's, that's leak free. You refuse two pieces of pipe together, it now becomes one piece of pipe and that you have to have the equipment to do it. And here's just a sampling of of some of the large diameter equipment that's out there to do that type of fusion work. Yeah, correct. So if you can put a pipe system together using Bud Fusion, the Bud fusion method, that's, in my opinion, the best way to do it. So today, the capabilities for Bud Fusion are up to up to 3.5 meter and maybe even larger in some other areas of the world today. Domestically, we get we've got up to 2.7 meter diameter in our fleet. But the capabilities for those fusion machines, like you, seeing them in the pictures, those are available. Those are here. They're here in North America today. And speaking of the Fusion, one of the questions that we get frequently, regardless of what size, pipe or fusion make right, is how do we how do we make ensure quality of the joint? How do we know the joint is good? Right. And that is a big aspect. And that starts with certified fusion training of the contractors, right? Or whoever is putting the pipe together, making sure that, you know, when you get into large diameter, the mechanics of the equipment, there's it's just because you can fuze four inch pipe doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be able to fuze 88 inch pipe together. Yeah. Good point Gary. There's there's four steps on the slide that we're going to we're going to talk about and fusion is is one of the primary ones and there are some differences when you get into these large diameter heavy wall pipes. What I would suggest is if anybody's designing or going to put this in the ground in the future, just call a time out, pull in some experts. Let's talk about large diameter fusion, because there's different standards, ASTM standards that we use today. There's a range that you can weld pipe at. There's ISO standards, there's device standards, and you mix that in with some of the low slump resins. It's not difficult, but you do want to make sure that your team, whoever is doing the Fusion, has been qualified on those large diameter pipes. And so going through a proper fusion training, I would do that on any project anyways you're going to want to test at the factory. Thanks for showing that, Gary. You want a chance to make sure my pipe was made correctly, right? So how do we do that? Right. You want to test the resin, You want to make sure you do a high speed tensile impact. Make sure your pipe is good before you start shipping lots and lots of truckloads out to the field. Let's just do a quality test, make sure the pipe is manufactured correctly and it's good. And then when you get in the field, once you've trained your team on how to Fuze and you've tested the pipe at the factory, incorporate some good technology, use the data logger, make sure that that spec in on your project. So now you have traceability on who welded your pipe when they well what the parameters were all of those things that won't tell you 100% if your joints are good or not but assured gives you some some peace of mind that they're being done consistently and you know who's doing it when. It was done all of that the way I like to to use the belt and suspenders on the testing. If you're doing large diameter pull the guy inside been in and do a field test. Let's do a fuze. Gary, I want to make sure your fusion joints are good. We've trained you. The pipe is good. We've done a larger joint. Let's cut one section out. Let's do a in-field guided side bend test. If you do all of those things, you're going to have a really, really good system. Those are those are the four steps I would recommend for sure. Absolutely. And and again, this we we recommend this regardless of size of pipe. This is not unique, just a large diameter. But the certification training on the equipment handling is a little bit different when you get into large diameters. And like I said, just because you're trained on a smaller sized machine, you may have the background of fusion, but you need to get comfortable and be trained thoroughly on the proper operation of the equipment. And that is that is a big thing. Gary, We have I know we have a lot of engineers, we have a lot of municipalities and owners on the call. If anybody wants information on those different standards and what's available at the end of this presentation, we'll give you a QR code and an email address. We'll be glad to get you that data to make sure that gets put in your specs correctly. Absolutely. Absolutely. Mike, let's field a couple. We got some more questions rolling in and we're going to take a moment here and try to answer one or two of these. Daniel asked, Do you think pressure ratings will ever increase with large diameters? I looking at I think he's as which he's talked about 60 inch and larger, and I'll answer that question mind you better than anything that I missed. But Daniel, we're already seeing that we have the ability now to manufacture pipe, you know, much, much greater thicknesses than what we used to. Now, Daniel doesn't specify what kind of pressure rating he's looking for, but, you know, the the wall thickness is now, Mike, that we're seeing with with polyethylene being manufactured here are much, much greater. Yeah, for sure. That's a great question. The answer is yes, they will increase for sure. You know, we're seeing up to six inch thick pipe. I mean, I think as resin gets better, you may not need to do that as well. But the answer is yes. There's a couple of examples I saw just posted this week. Actually. I met my new friend Jens over in Germany. He's working on a project in Asia right now. He's doing a chemical plant cooling water line, 20 to 50 millimeter, which is 88 inches for US Americans, D.R. 17. So heavy wall, 88 inch pipe over in Asia. Jose posted one today that Romania project that yep that's going that's two meter diameter D.R is 41 so pretty thin all the way down to D.R. 17. So yeah, I think the answer is yes. Yeah. And D.R. 17 plus rated at 125 PSA. So you know I'd again don't know, Daniel, what specific pressures you're looking for, but that's substantial. That's something that we couldn't do, you know, ten, 15 years ago. So thanks for that question. And Nicole asked. She may have missed it. What does the data logger provide? Great question since we're just on that slide right here. So the data logger is a recording device that monitors the fusion process that the operator is doing. So it's hydraulically measuring, you know, not only time, but precious time for melting the pipe. The pressure that he's using for fusion, does he does the operator do the right shift sequence on the machine? It's capturing all those steps being done on the on the fusion joint so that you know, that the the which, you know, part of the fusion is is time and pressure and so that there's a specific time for each step as well as a specific pressure rating or setting for that and the data loggers capturing all that as the operators are doing the work. I think you're to add to that and that's a great question, Nicole. Sorry, we didn't explain that further, but it also gives you a, you know, a quick visual display. If if those parameters are being met, you'll be able to look at that on the screen. You can also take that information at the end of the day and your your your construction team can download that information. So you quickly review it. We do that on every single one of our fusions that that we make in our fab shops and our technicians do right. We have that data every single night so we can see if everything was in the correct parameters. So it's a good it's a good way to check and make sure that you're following procedures. Yep. Very good. Thanks, Nicole. Helping us keep there. Make sure we cover everything that we're supposed to cover. Mike, you know, we need our audience to help us do that, especially as you're getting older than me. I think that. Let's see here. I thought I saw one more. Henry asked for cooling tower and process piping with normally clean water. What are the prospects of formation and accumulation of deposits? You want to take that first, Mike, and then I'll fill in any gaps. Yeah. I'm not sure I have the exact answer for that, but I think with the fact that it's HTP and it's and it is a thermoplastic, I think the fact that films get it, you're not going to get much film build up on there. I don't know if you'll get any Gary or not in that application, but it's going to be a lot less. Yeah, I mean, I've seen not specific to this application, but you know, occasionally I'll see a little scaling on pipes after they've been in, in a what, even a clean water service, you know, for 15, 20 years. Some of that just kind of degradation of any metal components that are in the piping system itself. Right. But they're very minor, but they don't impact any of the flow. And typically are you could scrape it off with your fingernail. So it's not like, like tuberculosis in that we see in metal or concrete pipes that are building up on the inside. Yeah, I think what I would add, that's a good way to answer that. I mean, we're using it in water every single day. Cooling towers. Yes, we use it in that district energy. You and I are at the District Energy Campus show last week. Right. It's being used in all of those applications. Right. And we're not getting that that build up like you would see on maybe a piece of steel pipe. So great question. I think I think we can handle that better for sure. Yep. Very good. All right. We'll move on in the presentation. We'll try to circle back to some more of these questions. Please. Please keep them rolling. And if we don't happen to answer it live before the end of this presentation, we will definitely. You'll receive a an email response to every question that comes in. So please keep them rolling. Mike, let's talk about some of these projects We've referenced them in in throughout our discussion today. And so we are quickly rolling up on time here. So let's go. Through those through a quick. Yes, let's go through some of these. This you mentioned the Lake Kivu, methane gas extraction out of the lake in Africa. Yeah, great application for HDPE, Deep water, methane extraction out of Lake Kivu, which is a really deep lake with with lots of methane in it. HDPE, The pipe of choice. Those are fun projects for us because we get to, we get to sell pipe, but we get to build some really cool structures and then send people over there to weld Pipe that was using 54 inch and 48 inch pipe, helping to dig gas that lake and get rid of that methane funnel project for sure. Yeah, you said some unique structures that one back there. I always call that the the Starship Enterprise. I mean it looks like a spaceship sitting there behind those guys I believe Mike, this project, this is the largest directional drill project, if I'm not mistaken, this was a city of Miami on a 54 inch HDP sewer line right through downtown Miami. Yeah, fixing some deteriorated concrete pipe, I believe, is what was in that system before. So everybody knows the benefits of HD. Our pipe is the primary pipe of choice for a reason. This just shows that we've got up to 54 inch. I would expect that those sizes of grow as well in the future. But this was at that time the largest directional drill pole in North America. Yeah, and I think total pull on this was was over 7000 feet, if I'm not mistaken. I might have that number wrong a little bit, but quite, quite a big, big project going downtown like this one. I know you're heavily familiar with the Steinberger Canal job here in the US for I believe this was Eric Irrigation line. Yeah, it's a canal and closure canal conversion, what we call that. And in the West we have a, we have a bunch of open canals that are just seeping water into the ground and also evaporating. When you enclose those canals, you save at least 20% of that water by doing that. Right. So talk about ESG, water savings, all of that. There's I don't know how many miles, but a bazillion miles of canals that are still open, including Arizona where I live. This is in Utah. This is this is a 78 inch pipe that got put in recently in Utah at Steiner Steinberger. There's more of these to be out there for sure, I think. I think we talk about one coming up as well, Gary. But in the West for sure, canal closures are a big, big thing. Yeah And that fusion machine, that bottom right picture, that's called the macro Talon, that's a massive machine that do up to 78 inch slightly different than some of the fusion machines you may be familiar with. This machine actually drives over the pipe, so your pipe is strung out ahead of you. You drive over the pipe, lift it, bring it up into the upper middle area of that machine, do the fusion, lay it back down on the ground and drive forward. So fusion process a little bit different than maybe the traditional method you're used to seeing. Yeah, we've used that talent on several projects. Gary And go back one slide real quick and look at look at the top picture, two excavators, right, one two centimeter, a lot of pipe, a couple of elbows in there, but using normal excavators that are on site are ready to lift and put that pipe in the ground. So thanks to our our friend Natasha and Andrew for for some of those pictures and her help on that project. Yeah. And you know, as I said earlier, the fusion is all done outside the trench. So you're all your excavation is just just enough width to be able to drop your pipe in. You don't have guys having to be in a trench were shoring and and all those things that you got to do for safety to protect those workers. Everything's done outside the trench. Correct. This is another favorite of mine. This is the McLaughlin Point up in Vancouver wastewater line Fuzed up dragged out into into the canal or into the harbor. And then I think it was actually towed and tugged in place to its final position at the wastewater treatment facility. So this is kind of what I call a float and sink installation method, but really neat project, 88 inch diameter pipe, largest solid wall pipe project to date in North America. Less like you're aware of one that I've missed over the last year or two. And give all my secrets away. Gary But no, this is this is the and this is commonplace, as I mentioned earlier. I mean, this is being done in Asia. It's being done in Romania today. I mean, this is pretty commonplace around the world. That's that's the one thing I want to make sure this team knows is if you're going to design an HDP, large diameter pipe in place of something like McLaughlin, this was a steel pipe line design. And then they realized they could use HDP. They changed the design, put in a much superior system, and that system is going to be there for the next hundred years with no corrosion, no issues, none of that right. So much improved system. Don't feel like you're the guinea pig. This stuff is being done around the world, right? This is a good example of it. Absolutely. Yeah. This was a fun project to be involved in. And then this one here, Mike, another canal enclosure that you mentioned, Enterprise Canal believe this was Idaho, if I'm not mistaken. Yep. And a 63 inch diameter project. And I know you're you've been involved in this one as well. Yeah. These again, these are becoming pretty commonplace. Right. And 63 inch is pretty common for us these days. We have lots of equipment and resources to take care of that. I think we have a really cool video we're going to show here next. The governor actually of Idaho talks about this project. Let's go and play that. Yeah. Okay. Enterprise Canal Company is building a new 1.6 mile pipeline to modernize its irrigation infrastructure. It's also building three aquifer recharge basins to enhance the Eastern Snake Plain aquifer. Idaho Governor Brad Little toured these new leading Idaho water projects to underscore their value to the state of Idaho. I want to thank the board and the Enterprise Canal Company for making this investment. This project checks three different boxes. It improves water conservation. It enhances water and increases our ability to store and recharge water in the drought years. And the board created the aging infrastructure grant program for that purpose. It has funded 19 grant projects to improve water sustainability in Idaho so far, with more to come. We have done some incredible things in the last few years and for good reason. It stopped. Gary I don't know if we cut off there or not, but yeah, that's cool. I mean, the governor of out there promoting right water conservation and using HDPE pipes. So another good application for sure. Right? Yeah. That was, that is a really unique project. So Mike, we're, we're quickly closing up on our time. I know you and I could probably sit here and talk about this for, for quite some time, but we've got about 8 minutes left from our time slot. Let's, let's talk a little bit about the outlook, what what we see in the future. I know your crystal ball is is getting a little hazy over time as you're as you're aging. But what do you what do you think you're going to see what we're seeing in the large diameter world regarding HDPE. That's twice now Gary. You call me old. I think our department is on here. I want them to take. Care of that. Now. I am. You know, we all are. But it's unfortunately my father. Time is the never loses buddy. You know we have though, Gary, that that I like to call tacit knowledge just means you get some great ideas lots of experience. So we always said yeah that's good. So what I would say and listen, I've been I've been lucky enough to, to work on some really cool projects around the world. I spend a lot of time in various parts and it's opened my eyes up on what the capabilities really are that are out there today. And we have some great partners around the world that that that are working on some really cool projects. Resin is going to continue to improve the next generations are on the horizon. We've already seen it two or three times in our careers. It will get better, the residents will get better, the pressure ratings will will increase and the diameters are going to get bigger, but residents are going to continue to improve. What's the next one? I don't know, but I just know they're they're already darn good now we've got CC three and our resins to help with the chlorine. We're we're already producing really good resins extrusion equipment. It's, it's it's already there it's bigger today. And I think what we'll see in North America is more large diameter extrusion equipment. The market continues to ask for it. The market's big. We're going to continue to see more of that. So just imagine welding up to 138 inch solid wall pressure pipe today. That's going to happen in North America soon. Right? So we've got those capabilities below 65 inch. Everybody does. But it's going to going to happen. So it's kind of a supply and demand, right, Mike? The more, you know, people are asking for it, you know, the more it'll come because it's already in. What are they doing in Europe in four and a half meter, I believe is. The last I've seen. I've seen our friends at UPI. I think Muhammad might be on here as well. The guys are UPI. They do a great job over in Abu Dhabi, their welding profile wall pipe like you see in that top picture there with Jeremy, their welding profile wall pipe up to four meter diameter for for lots of desal power plant intake lines. Outfall lines. Yeah. You look at the development in parts of the world, that stuff's being done right now all the time. So that's going to gravitate to North America as well. Yeah. You know, and you know, the the need, the demand for for moving, you know, fluids. Right. Regardless of what it is, is going to continue to grow, as you said, Mike. So this is not going to go backwards any any time. Right. And and the more we can bring polyethylene benefits to that market, to that, you know, those different end users, the the better our whole environment is, right. Yeah. I think, you know, the demand to move water for sure is always going to be there. But I would also say the demand to fix the aging infrastructure that's out there like what are you going to do to replace pipe that's been in the ground for 30, 40, maybe 50 years already? Let's not put the same stuff in the ground. Let's put the better next generation pipe in the ground. And that's really where I think we can help with all the advantages of HDPE, whether it's directional drilling or or slip lining or just a new pipeline. I think the aging infrastructure is just as important as maybe any new water transportation out there. Right. So we'll see if I think we got a couple more questions in here, Mike, we might be able to get to before we wrap up. let's see here what are we got? Germany, Ireland asked. We're looking at large diameter pipes for projects there are various SDR is available, I'm assuming, along with the XLR production. What kind of lead time planning do you recommend with these various pipe sizes? Then what are the products? Typical production run quantities. The question that we need before making the pipe. Yeah, that's a. That's a good. That's a big question, you know, and every project is different and unique, but Mike, why don't you give a, give a little snippet of what the what I would love to do. Is what I would say. I mean, you're right, Every project is different. So, you know, pipe manufacturers want as long of runs as they can possibly get. They want to flip the switch and make a long section of pipe, whatever that is, large diameter. You know, that may be different. But what I would say is pull us in early. Right. The earlier we get pulled in on your initial design, the more we can help you with the fittings, the fabrication, the mechanical fittings, the joints, the construction method, and make sure that your project gets specified the way it should at that same time, we can talk to you about like how to maximize those production run C save money, how to maximize or minimize transportation as well. So no real answer. But I would say if we're early on the design side, pull us in, please, and we'll walk you through all of those steps as well. Absolutely. Yeah. Great question, Alan. All right, Mike, we're we've got to be wrapping up. We got a couple of minutes and I'd be remiss without talking about Isco. The reason you and I are both able to be here with me in this fabulous studio talking about FDP High Isco, we are HP Solutions provider. That is our core product. That is what we focus on 100% all day, every day. That's what that's what we do. Everything from pipe supply fitting manufacturing fabrication capabilities, fusion equipment, largest fleet of equipment available for your projects, whether it's to rent, to purchase, whatever you need in incredible technical department. I mean, some of the smartest guys in the industry I'm proud to call my teammates here that can do your project. Estimating help you with those specifications that we've talked about, as well as education training. Our fusion technicians are second to none and they are top drawer as far as being able to. Whether it's fusion, your here's the pipeline, your job for train your team how to do the work so if you've got it you're considering HDP on a project. As Mike said, please get us involved early and we can really help you navigate and make make this project a success for you and your client. If you want to communicate with us specifically about large diameter, we got this little QR code here to scan to get more information specific on large diameter pipe from Cisco, and we'll be glad to help you. And if other ways to connect with us, Facebook here, I'll LinkedIn, you know, Twitter, all those whatever Twitter is now I forgot X I guess is what it what it is now all of those different methods now come find us and we're here to help you with that said Mike, we have hit right at 3:00. We are right on time. Top of the hour. We appreciate everybody joining us today. Thank you so much for taking an hour of your time spent with Mike and I. As we talked about large diameter HDPE pipe. Mike, it's been a true pleasure having you join me here on set and I appreciate it very much. Hopefully we can do it again sometime, my friend. Thank you. Appreciate everybody join. Have a good day.