The benefits of slip-lining with Snap-Tite and Spirolite to rehabilitate ailing culverts - detailing the low-impact, long-term solution that improves on the original.
We'll cover:
The positives and negatives of other culvert solutions
How Spirolite and Snap-Tite address all aspects of culvert failures
The longevity and improved flow rates of Snap Tite and Spirolite
The minimal environmental impact of Snap-Tite and Spirolite
The benefits of slip-lining with Snap-Tite and Spirolite to rehabilitate ailing culverts - detailing the low-impact, long-term solution that improves on the original.
We'll cover:
The positives and negatives of other culvert solutions
How Spirolite and Snap-Tite address all aspects of culvert failures
The longevity and improved flow rates of Snap Tite and Spirolite
The minimal environmental impact of Snap-Tite and Spirolite
I'm excited to be here today. I want to welcome back anybody who's been on the website, the webinars before this show. We got a lot of great subjects over the years and excited about this one today. Today's episode is specifically on Culvert rehab, and I'm really excited about about what we have to offer. We've got about 45 minutes of discussion, plenty of time for for Q&A. So let's let's get right to the instructions for today. So you guys are all turned off on video and audio just to enhance the quality of our presentation today. If you're having any issues right now, be chat function, be a good one. Jump on that and let us know if you're having any issues. And of course, we've got time today for Q&A. We always build in time and we will do our best in real time to answer those if it's appropriate to that subject. And if we miss anybody along the way, we'll try to capture at the end. Of course, we missed you at the end. We will. We will certainly follow up and answer any questions that you have. All right. As I stated, I'll be the host today. Excited about the subject? I worked in our Culver, Wyoming, Culver Rehab satellite division for about five years. So it's been about seven or eight years this system. So I remembered most of it. And now so I'm happy that I've got a couple of subject matter experts with me today I'd love to introduce. And the first one is Steve Tobias. Hey, David. Thank you. So I'm actually going to call you out right off the bat because part of my intro is the fact I've been with this show for 12 years and I've been in this position for ten years. So it's been ten years. David, Finally, since you. Are so you did the math. Exactly. But I can't thank you for giving me this opportunity and to work with the corporate lining team. We deal primarily with the snap tie and the spiral product lines for Ensco. But the unique thing about our group is we do culvert lighting, culvert rehab all day, every day. And one of the key components to our team is Don McGriff. And Don, I want you to take over there with our other host. Thanks, David. Yeah, my name is Don McGriff. I've been in the polyethylene world about 30 years, primarily in technical roles with ESCO. I've done a number of different things beyond the traditional industrial municipal markets. I've worked with landfill, geothermal, nuclear and rehab. And that's led me to involvement with a number of different organizations from ASTM, a semi, AC, the T, R, B, and Astro most recently and I based out of Huntsville, Alabama. So I cover a lot of the south southeast, but I kind of work parts unknown. David So I kind of go anywhere they need me. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm proud of it. You didn't say one thing about Alabama football, did not? I was going to say I'm from Alabama and so please bear with me with my intelligence level. But I did say in a holiday express last night, so nice. Nice. Well, let's start this, guys, with a getting to know our audience a little bit. We love to take polls and and kind of get a little bit of an idea on where we're at with the audience. We've got several guys joining us for the first time, like I said, and some some repeats, but well, we'll take these balls and hopefully have our discussion catered towards some of the some of the responses. So give it another second here. All right. Well, looks like we got a lot of people here who are here just for the color rehabilitation of you working on a project related. Got some challenges on on several and interested in sustainable infrastructure solutions. So we've got a great mix of of of audience level of culvert rehab knowledge. So let's kick it off. Stephen, tell me a little bit of why we are here to discuss culverts. Why is this so important in today's infrastructure? Sure. David So as you may hear a lot about infrastructure and and the state of infrastructure in the US, culverts are a big part of that. So as you see on the screen, there have been several studies through the years addressing culverts California, Oregon there listed where thousands and thousands of culverts that are in their inventory that need to be addressed and that are only getting older every day. And in fact, AC does the infrastructure report card every four years and culverts fall under bridges, which is a C-minus on their report card and has been consistent consistently like stormwater. The on the report card transportation road construction again. D So the need is out there. The good thing is from a funding perspective, we're starting to see more funding. We're starting to get more. People call us with inquiries about culverts, culvert, rehab, what are our options and whether it's the federal level with the infrastructure bill coming through at the state level, there's more funding. So we're just seeing more opportunities. So we get a lot more questions. That was a great time to put this topic out there for folks to have a better understanding of what their options are when they have to address culverts. And we we certainly are chasing down projects around the country, you know, very active on a daily basis. But we'd love to know. Quick poll again, if you guys are experiencing any funding in your areas. Of course. So let's take another quick poll. I hope everybody can see this all right. So the great hold on. Did I mention this is the first time I posted this first. Time on a computer dated? Yeah, it is the first time I've experienced this. So. So moving on. The moving on. We're going to move to Don. Don, give us a little background on culverts and assist in culverts. I'd love you to jump in and take this away from me. No problem, David. So we will start back a little bit. Maybe we'll go a little bit to elementary, but a culvert is basically a conduit for transporting groundwater or stormwater or water runoff from from one side of an infrastructure to another. So we're typically talking most time about a roadway. Sometimes we're talking about a railroad. But even in airports, under runways and in levees where we have the drainage structures that will still have some sort of culvert type process. So we're talking about things that go as far back as clay or brick, and then you get as time evolved, we get a little bit newer materials, RCP, which is reinforced concrete pipe or ICMP, which is a coordinated metal pipe. And and then within the last 20 or 30 years, you're seeing augmented plastics. Typically you're going to see them in a number of different shapes, primarily round, but you will see the oval, elliptical arched, flat configuration in box culverts. So when we were looking at and assessing all those culverts as far as trying to figure out the current state of the infrastructure and what to do with them. So I just grabbed this picture and was looking at it earlier. And clearly the question is repair or replace washboard. This is a replacement right down. Oh, well, David, it's not simple as that. You know, we love that you see a bottom there. You think there's not much we can do with that. We've got to really dig it up. And there may be some instances where replacing makes sense. This is not in this case, but in some cases they're collapsed. There's going to be instances where you want to enlarge the capacity. You want to go maybe from the 24 inch core to a 48 inch for hydraulics or even replace it with a bridge. There's going to be instances where you may have an aquatic or ecological concern that dictates a change and how that a roadway crossing or other infrastructure gets from one side to the other via the aquatic life passage. And then there's just instances where it's shallow and it's low volume roads. And then in those cases it might make sense just to be convenient to replace. But you see a list of variables there. You're probably going to be focused a lot on hydraulics that that drives a fair number of decisions or is going to be the focus on the structural. Can we deal with what we've got or can we rehab it in such that we're confident in the structural? And then there's going to be the combined of design life and cost? You know, how much does it cost me and what does it get me for for life? So, so there's a number of variables and we like to basically say, you know, you need to have a number of tools in your toolbox to be able to address these issues. So I did want to point out from this picture, we absolutely can repair that, repair that that can be rehabilitated. And that's one of the things I think, that especially folks that don't have a lot of experience assessing or dealing with culverts are quick to assume in a situation like that, it has to be replaced because definitely even some worse than that we've seen rehabilitated. And then the other component of that is when you are rehabilitating and you can see there in the picture a little bit there on the right, the the voided out area. So we know behind that the walls that hosepipe that there are voids. And so as you look at your rehabilitation options and Don, I'll talk about some of these, you know, that's something you have to consider what's outside of the pipe as well as what's on the inside of the pipe. Yeah, great job, Steve. And then just a reminder, at this point, we do have the Q&A open and we'd be happy to take any questions along the way. Again, we can we can we can grab them at the end of this presentation, but please, please participate. And if you have any questions, we'd love to we'd love to answer them. So. All right, Don, we'll move on to some solutions. If you or Steven tell us what's what's the what's the best way to start this? Yeah. So we categorize these in three different buckets, so to speak. And there are some things that can be done. We call them spot repairs. These are things that don't address the full culvert. We're going to be looking at things like a paved environment that you see in the picture here where you can address the bottom of the culvert and that's going to give you an extended extend the life, but not necessarily get the full life of maybe the existing host. You can deal with some things like joint spills where you have a separation of joints. The pipe may be new, but the joints are separated and those are typically going to be nonstructural, but they're going to seal against any leaks. And then you can also seal with things like roots that deal with soil stabilization and water stop issues where you might address a crack or a joint separation again. But yeah, we'll move on to there. Something to a close fit liner. And a close fit liner is a designation that we get from the Corps of Engineers, and it's particularly a useful designation in the fact that, you know, it's it's it's something that fits up against the idea of the existing pipe. Typically, people choose close fit ladders because they think of it as having a superior hydraulic advantage, which it does have some hydraulic advantages, but it's not all that's there. Typically, these are not going to involve grout. They're going to be up against the wall. So if there's going to be any addressing, you have to do it beforehand and they're going to typically involve specialized equipment. So in those cases with the grout, typically that would be a main entry scenario where they can insert grout. Yeah. So yeah, you would have to have a mandatory to to be able to address that. Correct. So if a move to the curative place, you know, this is typically going to involve insertion, insertion of a tube or a sock, as they call it, they're typically going to involve something that's resident impregnated bottle esters, polyester is epoxies are typically the the common resins that are used. You would insert this and typically that works well in a close is what we mean by close system is a manhole manhole catch basin cache based on where you don't have the access that you might need for for other methods. You're going to insert that and then add a heat component or curing component. Sometimes it's DV Typically the industry recognizes this is a 50 year design life, but you know, you've got to have a structural you've got to dress this in your specifications is whether this is structural, non structural and there's some deep dos in that, whether they're partially deteriorated, a fully deteriorated. And I would just tell you that I read one article that I believe it was the the Center for Underground Infrastructure, Education, Research and Education, and they basically said that the cap is a it's a support, but it's not necessarily structural. You know, it's a reinforcement, but it's not fully structural. And so you've got to you've got to be sure what you've got from a structural component and be confident that so the specifications match up to them. And the key there is to make sure all that information is included in the specifications. Correct? Correct. Yeah. One other thing on the curve in place that comes up a lot where we get the question is related to bends and curves, undulations, the severity of that in a liner versus some of the other methods. Yeah. So I mean, any bend, any change in directions is going to be a challenge in some way for for most lighting situations they appear to place. If the bend is pretty aggressive, then you're going to see a flap that forms typically on the the short end of the angle where you might have a chicken flap or something that hangs down. When you do some other methods, it's going to have the same thing for a light or system matter. It's going to create a lot of friction to be able to get through, and there's a comfort level in how much that can be depending upon the material that was going to wait to to bring this question up. We do have one question and I'm guessing it's for the slip line, but I'm going to throw it out to you, Don. Okay. So is it possible to use a liner on a 60 inch, 15 degree bend located 100 feet from the entrance of the culvert? I think I hope I answered that question. Right. Yeah. That's going to be it potentially is a challenge. I'm not going to say, you know, it it depends upon where you're going to have access points and and what the size liner, you know, the smaller you go, the more forgiveness you have for for going around that bend. But potentially it's going to be an issue at that angle. You know something 15 degrees a large it's going to create a lot of friction on that. So the next one is a similar type method. Phone form typically involves a thermoplastic pipe, but most of time it's going to be PVC, sometimes polyethylene. And as you can see here, it's extruded round, but it's deformed, typically folded into some sort of U-shape. And then when you get to the field, it's it's re rounded with a controlled steam or pressure process. And so when it's expanded, it's meant to fit up against the IED just the same way this shop would. But you're typically going to deal with dimers that are 36 inch and smaller. They are going up a little bit larger these days. An attempt, but important to note that the difference between a slip and a folded form is the cap. When the heat is added, that's to actually cure it. You know, you're going to pull it in as a flexible nature for photo form. When you're adding the heat, it's actually making it pliable so that you can get it into the hole. And when the heat dissipate, it returns back to a, you know, a hardened form. So while you're adding heat for different reasons, it ends up acting kind of similar between those two. Now, one component with and Don, I ask you this question, one component with CAP compared to the folded form, the the steam in particular in the styrene involved in the swap process, that's why we're seeing a lot more U.V. cured cap liners. And my understanding is that's not the case with the PVC. As far as the steam being applied. No, they're typically it's not a release with the folded form. Maybe it's just a matter of making it pliable. Okay. I'm going to go back one slide and I think we got to an appropriate question for time. Okay. So Andrew's asking and see IP that need to be installed in the drawer. So a dry culvert, to the best of your knowledge, what's his response? Yeah, I would like to say to the best of my knowledge, because we like to say that there is a for most lighting, there's going to be some amount of dewatering that has to be done. I think for the close fit liners, the driver, it is the more likely you are to have success and if there's groundwater or water present, it's potentially going to create some sort of installation issue that that you may have to address. So those are best done in the dry. And we can talk about with foot liners. Is that the case as well when we get to the. Okay. So one caveat there conversation recently where somebody actually did have a cap and it was installed in a in a wet type scenario, I will say. And Don, the the presence of water is most concerning. And the more northern, colder climates where you're going to potentially have a free stall dynamic. And what's that going to do to the material? Well, even if it's not cold with a sip, it's subject to to groundwater. No more excessive the groundwater, the more pressure it's putting on that lighter. But sip it is. You do have to be concerned a little bit with freestyle interactions that occur from that groundwater. It's typically going to create some sort of reaction to to the water, especially the thinner it is. So that's a good point, that it is something to be concerned about. All right. We'll move on to the next one. I remember back Monday, the spray in liners. I saw a ton of that in the south. It seemed like it seemed like that was that was a product choice in a lot of applications back then. So give me a little information on that. Yeah, I think it's a sign saying of groundwater can create a little bit more issues, especially the freestyle, but it's going to be something that it's a sprayed, it's a cement cementitious or polymer resin. So from the picture you can see that it could be hand and spray, it can be rotary sprayed, which is probably a good idea in most cases, because at least you have a little bit better control of the amount that's being applied. You can hand trial it and place it. Your typically just view this as a larger culvert, something that has room for a man or a person to get in. But, you know, again, you're going to be challenged with is this a a corrosion barrier or is it a structural? And most people think that it should be a structural and therefore the design looked kind of questionable. You know, I've seen five, ten, I think 20, I've seen 50. I don't think you get a consensus in the industry. And I'd like to point out something that was in the August issue of Underground infrastructure last month, and they were talking specifically about spills and they said the lack of comprehensive standards, design guys, guidelines, testing and evaluation of spills is limiting the acceptance of use by Dot's and private entities to renew old pipes. Thus, sufficient information is not available to confirm SPL as a structural and durable renewable technology renewal technology to enhance the assessment of gravity and pressure pipes. And so I would say that a lot of these technologies, especially for the close fit liners, were born out of early adopters of of renewals, of water, sewer pipes that were typically small bores and and smooth interiors. And so a lot of times we're dealing with corrugated shapes or we're dealing with disjointed RCP and, and quite honestly, the design guidelines are based upon a round structure and these things as they're failing are not round anymore. And so deflection and how the deflection is, is applying, the loads become concerns. And so there's, there's work to be done in the industry. I like to compare spray applied is being sucker. If you've got a good structure to a house you've got a good two by four wall and you put stucco and when outside you've created good corrosion. But if you're if you're walls are are failing and you put a stucco on it, then you've essentially put, for lack of a better analogy, a diaper on a baby. You know, you've addressed the outside. And sometimes when you're putting these coatings on, you're typically capturing or increasing the amount of corrosion that occurs to a host because it is a barrier against water. It's not letting water out. That may have come through bolts of a of an arch Colbert or things like that where the groundwater actually could get into the culvert and then be channeled away. So you're you have these considerations that we've seen that increases the amount of questions for structural and design one. So I think just a kind of capsule, what where he was going with that is everything we've seen up to this point we've talked about are all applicable to culvert repairs. They can all be used and all be used effectively and you're going to gain additional life to your culvert based on based on the option you choose. I think the most important thing or the message would be as an owner or an engineer in particular, that you make sure and look at the details of your particular scenario and especially from the perspective of the structural component, make sure that you've included the right design information, your specifications, and that you are getting the structural solution that you're looking for. All right. I've got a couple questions. I'm worried coming our way, but we're going to move on here just a second to the warning portion of our presentation. One of the questions on a closed pit liner, are they bonded to the base material? And again, earlier I referenced you as a as an expert, but clearly you're the expert on slip blending with wood, with pipe inside pipe. So this is your knowledge today. So a lot of the guidance on those comes from. Yeah, because they're dealing with it again from a water or sewer renewal and they classify three of them as nonstructural and, and therefore they're non bonded, at least for sure to place non bonded to the liner or to the hose pipe and the structural would have to have some sort of bond. And typically there's an encouragement at least within the Corps of Engineers documentation is that that that existing host has to have some sort of reliable integrity. You know a lot of voids, a lot of holes, a lot of deterioration is not ideal for a structural solution. So that's that's full slip. The closer the folded form while it's it's expanded out against it it's not bonding to to the existing it becomes its own ladder in many cases now it can get some support from existing host and dealing with structural loads, but it's not relying upon the host itself to to create a composite type structure and the spray applied. It definitely needs to be attached, you know, at least to set up. It has to have some sort of adherence early on, but I'm glad to have the questions and but yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and Thomas was kind enough to point out, you know, as we saw me for culvert lining but basically so we certainly don't want to represent the BP and if if if any of the comments were contradicted then and please please, you know, focus builder is the so. All right. Well, let's get into the meeting and what I believe we are the same these are you guys are and that's amazing and that's going to be cool right So we've we've heard about see IBP folding form dig and replace they all seem to have a good place in the market is as Steven said tell the audience a little bit about what you for slip whining and why you believe it's a good choice going forward. Yeah David So what's the start with the process of foot lining, that process, at least for the first few steps, are going to look similar to to the process for a closed foot liner. You know, you're going to make some sort of assessment of what, what you need from a a new a new liner, a new pipe and a solution, whether that be the length and what you're going to use. And then there's probably going to be, no matter what you choose some sort of planning prep of the existing host. Yeah. Removing some debris and removing rocks, making sure that, you know, any reflections that can be addressed or done. And then you're going to install a pipe or liner with a liner. But in this case, the the only thing you have to do then is that that current process, that close fit, is going to be a curing or spraying process for the installation. But fortunately, you know, our steps are going to be the two below steps, which is going to be sealing the ends, which we typically call the bulkhead, which you'll see in that section second picture, and then there'll be some sort of grouting of the inner your space, which is filling in that annulus that is created by putting a pipe inside of the existing host. So this is typically going to involve a pipe and that may be any number of different materials. HDPE PVC, you see the terms GRP and F, r P, which are kind of interchangeable depending upon where in the world you live, but that's essentially a fiberglass pipe. SRP is still reinforced polyethylene, which is typically a corrugated exterior, and then a steel which is used a lot for ARGE. So, you know, those certain materials work well for the non circular shapes, the arches, the ellipses, the box culverts and specifically the F for P and the steel options work well on many of those regarding the other materials that are used for split lining piece. The what we're going to focus on today, it's got a range of properties that make it advantageous at a cost that that's pretty appealing to most. So you're talking about a material that's a rugged, robust, flexible, again, pretty cost effective. So when you do a slope line, again, the recommendation is to have a grounded annulus for fully structural rehab solution. So yeah, Don, so one of the components that we always talk about and I guess the decision making process for folks out there is is that grouting. A lot of times we have questions about the grouting process. What's involved with that, What kind of grout should we use? But I think most importantly, it's what's going on with the hose pipe and the dynamic of the grout, not only filling the anchor space, but also if you're using the correct formulation for grout, going outside that host pipe, filling the void and helping to secure the structural component outside of the host pipe. Yes, the state. So, I mean, one of the biggest questions I get is do I really have to grout the inner space and is a recommendation we have. And and the reason we do it is basically there's there's a number of benefits. You can stop the road in the backfill erosion that may be occurring. And a lot of times the reason why people are addressing the culverts is they've seen some sort of evidence at the roadway or at the railroad or whatnot. So you're going to have to address that void creating the material, slotting away things of that nature. You're going to basically secure the pipe and the and maintain the grade that that ladder is on. When you when you add a grout and then you're going to be able to eliminate those water pathways that may occur outside of the hose pipe or within the annulus where the groundwater may want to bypass and create, continue to create a channel. So if you grout typically something, we promote a grout just because it's lightweight, it gets to a lot of places, it finds the voids. And many of the ones that you don't know that you have, you know, we're really talking about what we think is a simplistic process for lighting with polyethylene. The equipment to to install the pipe typically attracts a backhoe or something of that nature to get pipe put together and placed in. And then you're going to seal the the ends with concrete, which is something all boaties or road departments are going to be familiar with. And then adding or grout typically involves a group that's either in-house or easily could be obtained. So we talked about the specialized equipment and the specialized expertise that's needed with some of the close fit liners. We like to think this is simplistic. Maybe, maybe we make the round a little bit more simplistic than that. It turns out to be for everyone, but it's not a complex process. You're just replacing the anchor space, giving it a material that's like sole. All right. Well, let's start off by talking about Astro and specifications. Do you jump in and give us a little background on. Sure. This and why it's important to this group? Sure. So so the folks in the audience that are familiar with we're dealing with transportation related construction probably know of Astro for those that don't. American Association of State and Highway and Transportation Officials Organization nationally that is made up of members of all the state dots as well as some other state and federal partners. But the reason this comes up is because a lot of times with what we've seen out in with our engineering and owner community is they look to standards to give them guidance on how they should approach their culvert rehab options. And a lot of folks start with Astro 326 so the MX 326 specification addresses it's a culvert rehab specific application or a standard that that includes the use of pipe for slip lining the culvert, going through the grouting process that Don explained. But it also identifies that it can be a fuze HDPE pipe or a mechanically joined pipe. And you know, to note that it is specific to the application of culvert rehab. State, then a lot of people confuse m 326 with M 294 Can. You? Yeah. So that's good. And so you know, our our company ESCO industries we deal with solid well HDPE pipe infused applications pressure applications. And so the product lines that we deal with relate to culvert lining obviously is not that it's drainage and we do have a mechanically joint component. So we stand in front of folks, we talk about deep pipe. Their first point of reference is the Astro M 294, which is the dual wall corrugated drainage pipe direct. Barry And to be clear, that's not what we're talking about here. So it's a solid wall HDPE product that's used in industrial applications and it's really robust, as Don said before, in being able to put it a pipe inside a pipe and all the nasty scenarios that you're going to have with with rusted out inverts or turned up inverts or deflections and this pipe is a very good product to push through those dynamics. Steve, we thank you for doing that. And I remember in 320 6-0, wait, this has been out for a long time. It's probably revised a couple of. Yeah, I think the current revision is fascinating. Okay. So it was about eras and it's. Been around a long time, but most states have adopted it for state. DLT Yeah, like I said before, the nice thing about this is, you know, you're gonna go through a decision making process, maybe a decision making tree. And so a lot of folks have found that this covers the largest and broadest scenario is that you're going to see and it covers the range of sizes for this are the solid wall sizes which is basically up to 63 inches an outside diameter. So it's going to cover the most common culvert sizes out there. And one of the things for owners in dealing with their assets years and years down the road is they have consistency in the repairs they're using for the next generation of engineers and owners are going to deal with these things. The less different scenarios they have in their in their asset inventory, the better. So they can start with this, use this as their starting point. And then if they have unique dynamics, then they go back to spot repairs and they do some things with it in place or folded former or the spray liners. If they need to do that. I'd like to take a little breather here. We're right on time. I think we've just got a few more. We can go back to Steven real quick on the camera. Our marketing team said the best shirt to wear with a blue background was a gray shirt. And then Steven did a great job. I appreciate you, Don. Your beard. Just for today. We wanted to. Yeah, we were all great. Worked really hard on that. Nice job. So, yeah, I'm glad you comb your hair for that. All right. Well, again, any questions, let us know. We'll be taking a poll here in just a couple of minutes, but excited to jump to the next screen. Don, tell us a little bit about Snapchat. So just clarifying what Steven said. So the to 94 typically talking about in ads in 12 and most people are familiar with that. And it does a good job from a directory standpoint. But when we're talking about the solid wall FTP, as Steven had mentioned, alluded to a few minutes ago, so normally a fresh rated pipe, so something that's capable of 60 PSI until we machine the ends on it, but we're talking about a pipe that roughly is half inch for every 16 inches of diameter. So if you had a 32 inch, it'd be a one inch thick pipe, 48 inches an inch and a half thick polyethylene. So again, really robust and so it's a structural pipe. It's only direct buried. We're using it, but obviously with a smooth interior, smooth exterior has a lot of advantages for culvert lighting. But one of the biggest advantages we like talk about it is a structural pipe. And so when you're relining an existing coast and you need some more for shoulder or you need something for extra lanes, that's the advantage that it has over close fit ladders where you're relying on the existing hose and that's all you've got. You can't spray more on the outside. You can't extend that sort of place and bury it with reliability. This you can. So if you need 4 to 6 feet on each side, you can use polyethylene. Again, it's a it's a mechanical joint. So male or female joint, a lot of people like to think about. We talk about specialized equipment and special set needs. And polyethylene can be heat use. But this pipe, because it's mechanically joined, we've made it simplistic. And so you don't need to have that. And when people compare lighting with polyethylene to other methods, they want to talk about fusion. And we've taken that dynamic or that that cost and that expertise out of it. We are typically talking about a pipe that ranges from 8 to 63 inch only on the outside diameter, and then you can back out again using that ratio of wall thickness to the diameter to get an idea. But that's that's in some of our literature pretty easy. We're talking about a pipe that is a 100 year service life, and that's based upon stress regression curve for pressure pipe. This pipe's not been around a hundred years, but it's been around about 50 years and doing very rather well. But we're talking about the pressure, great resonance. That's another difference. Point it and and say a quarter corrugated polyethylene pipe is because our grades are pressure grade resin so there are higher strength, higher resistance to cracks and things like that. So it gives you a great corrosion, abrasion, resistance, resistance to things that come off the road, things that that flow through a culvert. And then it's a very smooth pipe. The 0.009, for those of you without reference, is very smooth. So when when people choose a closed fit solution and they choose it for hydraulics, they're doing so because they think if I put this pipe in, that's going to be two, 3 to 6 inches difference and I'd from what I've got, I'm here to tell you that the the HDPE snap type will give you as good a flow through any stamp that we would only line and through some of the same sizes of RCP. Now you may take a step back depending upon those combinations, but when you're talking about flow you can get a lot through there. But David, I want to also focus on pipe capacity. You know, when we talk about the pipe, the pipe has a certain capacity and then you figure out what that means in coefficient, but it's not always just about the pipe. Sometimes it's about how well the water gets in or how well the water gets out. And so we we have worked with and created a hydro well, which is connects to the snap type system. And this works when you get an inlet control and inlet typically starts when you get a certain type of head water above the inlet and therefore that water doesn't get into the pipe well, and you can't take advantage of all the pipe capacity. Conversely, you might have outlet control where you have till water, so things that limit how well the water gets out. So while we talk about pipe capacity, we realized that hydraulically it's not always about that, but that hydro is basically a funnel. It's a inlet enhancement device that helps water get into the culverts so you can take advantage of the full range of the polymer. So basically for those that that I speak with on a simplistic term, it's how how fast does the water get through the pipe? And then when you're under a situation of head pressure that the entrance becomes in efficient hot air gaps. And so then how much water can we get in the pipe? Yeah, simplistic, but it's almost I have to correct people to say, how do I get more flow out of my pipe? And it's not that you're getting more flow out of your pipe when you use 100, well, you're taking advantage of the full capacity of the pipe by not letting it limit on the on the inlet and and to be quite honest, it's the only system I know that's doing culvert lightning that addresses inlet control. All right. Well, we have a quick question. It's pertaining to 66 inch diameter, which is very timely. And so we're going to move on to the next part of the presentation and I'll try to get this answer for for Bobby. But let's let's jump in to Steve and we talk about Snapchat. You mentioned 63 inch on the. Alrighty. And what's it look like, culvert lining, anything larger than that 63 inch o.D, which I believe will take care of 84 inch. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, potentially. From a flow capacity standpoint, as Don said, obviously that you have to look at that. But to clarify the 326 standard that we honed in on earlier, that is really kind of the starting point. That does go up to liners that Max at 63 inches, which is the largest solid wire, keeps us this far like product line is a profile wall pipe. It meets ASTM F 894 and this product line goes up to 120 inch A-D. So again, let's clarify. Most folks that deal drainage pipes are dealing with 80 control pipes. You've got to show him 326 that the first is kind of the standard. It's always DP that's an outside diameter pipe. And now we transition to the larger pipe for going back to an 80 control pipe. So it gets a little bit confusing and that's why you call us when you're looking at this and I'll make sure you're on the right thing. But the spiral product line gets us almost, almost all of the components that come along with the benefits of of a slip line acetone. 326 Really, the primary difference is the construction of the pipe, which Don will speak to and then the connection method, very similar, but not exactly the same. So Don, I'll let you take it from there. Yeah. So if we're going to image back on me here, I'll show you basically a cutaway of a profile water pipe. And what you're going to see is something that has a smooth interior, a core to it, and then an exterior. So the way this is made, the saltwater pipes typically extrude it out. It's extruded as a solid piece of pie with around a wall that's continuous as it turns out, this is basically taking a pipe that's manually wrapped. So you take this bottom layer, you wrap it around a mandrill, and then you're going to take this core tube and wrap it around the bottom layer. And that core group is going to be sized and spaced based upon the amount of strength that you need. And then you finish it off with an outer layer that gives you basically that smooth exterior that you need that helps with aligning the typically a corrugated the cover. So so here you get a smooth interior, smooth exterior, and it's something that's really robust and it's typically connected with a bell spigot. So it doesn't have the snap connection that that you normally have. It's bell and spigot. We have ways to help hold that bell and stick it together and we can engineer the wall to as thick and as that to handle the bits that we need. The structural loads that need. And and so it offers benefits not just for color lighting but a few other applications too. Yeah. So so the spiral product line we're talking about the for use in culvert rehabilitation for this presentation but it is a direct very pipe that's used in sanitary sewer, new construction re lines of sanitary sewer combined combined sewer systems as well as irrigation systems retention, detention and retention systems, odor control, just to name a few as well as some some above ground industrial or even even tanks, a manhole construction. Those are all components that that fire light can be used for. And then one of the things that coming back to relevance to the world of drainage and culverts is aquatic life passage. And we have a couple of options with the power light product line as well as solid waste for dealing with the aquatic life dynamic in drainage and culverts. Yeah, So, so real quick now this alpi pipe that we've developed is essentially the spa, like without that smooth interior. So your hydraulics suffer, but you're doing it to address the AOP or ecosystems that may need to cross from one side to the other. So typically you'll see a baffle systems in the well sediment to build up in the core and then some other baffles that could create rusting poles and things like that. And so you can use this for relining and use it for direct barrier. But the the harsh reality is, is that there's not enough funding to replace every failing culvert with a bridge, which is what every environmentalist wants to do. And I get it. But there's just not enough money out there. So with these failing culverts, we feel like we're offering some sort of intermediate advantage, maybe gives you another 20, 30, 50 years of life and saves that funding for those that really need the bridge. All right, great job, guys. So we said a lot. 45 minutes in right now. We've got a handful of questions. I'll wait a few minutes to get to those and and I just I just wanted to say I appreciate you guys, you know, excellent information and, you know, these insights. We are definitely our goal is to educate. So trying to do our best. I appreciate you talk about Snapchat. That's what you guys your day job. Right. You're just a little bit. But we really appreciate what you guys bring to the table. And as the host, I'll keep this thing moving because everybody's got other things to do. So real quick, there's some resources that are available. Just we have people can jot this down as we move along here. I just want to point out, yeah, these two guys, the technical guy design manual, has a lot of good information and it's kind of the color lining. Bible is really good for owners and engineers. They're looking to design a project and everything they need with that. The installation field guide is for installers, contractors. I did want to point out that we didn't mention before that one of the huge benefits of mechanically joined up for culvert lighting, especially with SNAP tied, is that it can be installed by your own work crew. So if you're a city accounting dot, we have a lot of dots the by this pipe and install it with our own work crews so it's absolutely can be doing this this field guide helps guide folks through that process and then obviously local contractor contractors do this work all the time. So next up and yeah, just escrow bestbuy.com is a great place to go or be you could certainly go dig in to field reports. For one thing. Real quick, the webinars up there, David, go back there real quick. They go make sure they get that. We did do about a year and a half, two years ago, a presentation on the only on our showroom. 326 So if you have more interested in that, go to the escrow dash, ecom web webinars and you can find that as well as obviously our other insights presentations. You can log into that, have access to those presentations. All right, great job. And and again, great job presenting on all options because I've been out there it's been it's been a while. Drove through a lot of culverts. And the reality is culverts are a big problem, right? The drainage culverts in the US, some of the states have been very proactive addressing, some have not. Everyone out there is getting worse every day. So so all of these options, all of these methods are things that people need to have. In their to an older every day. You are actually getting older everyday, just like. They're getting worse every day. Yes. Smarter, wiser. That's right. All right. Well, again, as the host, I really do appreciate you guys coming here and giving us the education on on just cohort repair culvert lining. And hopefully a lot of the audience got a lot out of this and they'll be willing to join another future opportunity for a is go inside so plug in this go real quick one slide on this if you haven't heard of us, just again, if this is your first time. Appreciate you guys joining. It's been here before. We certainly introduce ISCO, been with them for 16 years. Really appreciate the the effort and the focus on HD by right so these are locations around the U.S. please give us a call any project you have industrial wise landfill was on today we're talking about supplying with solid wall but there's lots of upcoming you know, insights that that the audience can jump on and please connect with us. You know we we definitely want you I noticed on the Twitter there's a little bird there isn't supposed. To be. An active next year at least that. So we got to correct that for a future presentation. Please connect with us. We'd love for you to connect. We try to do our best to again, educate on on those platforms. Hopefully you can get something in the future that would be beneficial. And of course, some of you guys, hopefully you guys came in for subsea use today. We love doing this. That's why we host this education, education, education. It's very difficult for all of our sales team to get out and do engineering presentations at every engineering facility. So we we appreciate you being here. Please use the QR code if you want to sign up for a fully accredited see you. We will get that back to you as soon as possible. Or again, you can go to the ISCO-PIPE.COM/CEUS All right. Let's see if maybe a couple of minutes of some questions. I've got some statements but but some some questions for you. Brant wants to know UK is playing Alabama and football this year. I'm assuming that Alabama's going to win that game and Steven Borg I mean I need a couple more weeks to figure out how that's going to work. The last time. We played in Lexington, I think we. Won, but you are sure 2000. All right. So Marissa asked a question earlier, and as the host, I wasn't sure what I and I meant. But she's talking about inflow and infiltration, so I'm not sure if she's specific to stop whining or other materials are out there. But my answer, I would say, hopefully you can correct me is if routed properly, there would not be any little in between the hosepipe for for a split line or definitely you know the ground well. It's meant to serve as a soul. It can't help but the latter self. Yeah. When it snap together with the gasket connection it's not going to allow any infiltration. Excellent. Fresh matter of fact, it's going to need to seal because it needs to hold back the grout as it as it's place. So. So you're typically not going to see any liquid coming into the interior from some infiltration, exfiltration. That's typically a term that's used a lot was the sewers because of manholes and pipes that are that are leaking the letting in and out. But when you got a sealed system after rehab, it should not. And as compared to some of the other liner products that we discussed. I think most of if they're doing well, you may see, like I said, you see spray applied sometimes you see that rust coming through, seeping through. So that kind of gives you an indication they're not addressing it fully if they're not done right anyway. But most of the time you're going to see infiltration, actual pressure go away if it's done properly. With any of these items. The key is correct and installation and correct steps being, I guess, specified to do the installation. Then yeah, there's going to be tradeoffs with every method. I mean, we mentioned close systems being an advantageous for this. You got to please, you know, as a foot liner you're typically talk about something that needs at least ten feet, sometimes 25 feet of room, and that's not always available. We understand that. So we like to say that. And one reason why we talk about these, you need to have a number of tools in the toolbox. There was a question earlier about large diameter sort of lighting in, I recall, when slipping in large diameter or any any bigger pipe. We definitely want to lift, you know, using skids as the the process of slipping the pole. And we I think we want the grout to go under for sure. The pipe we want good flow. And question was how thick of the skin do we need? And I don't remember that being anything specific. Well, there's a couple of aspects to that question, David, is with the polyethylene, it typically slides very well. Now, you don't want to take the chance of bonding, but, you know, with with a snap type being that smoother exterior and that joint having no protrusion, it slides without it. And then the depending upon how you need it invert, you may allow the grout to float the pipe. Most times you're trying to keep the pipe low to match the invert, so you're trying to keep that as small as possible. But the grout will typically find its way underneath the pipe. You don't have to have skids to do that with As far as like the larger pipe because of the bell spigot, you might assisted a little bit more, but if this pipe slides rather well, at least the polyethylene. Was that question specific to larger. Die? It was it was definitely specific to larger dynamics. So in that case, skids definitely are. Yeah. Well they'll definitely help the late may play a role as far as how comfortable your of getting it to plot from one end. So sorry but to my force right now 1620 feet long one. One but one months it we got a lot of contractors out there that are qualified for sure to to do cover line and use a SNAP site and these guys have some great tricks and things they utilize. So we'd be glad to pass along in a field. We try not to limit their imagination. That's right. All right. And then I think I know the answer to this one. How can I ask how much distance upstream of the head wall do you need to mobilize for the slip planning of of snap time and how much the stream would be impacted? That's obviously the most important part of the question. How much are we impacting the stream upstream of that culvert? Typically, you can have the the rehab line or pipe end at the current one. If you if you don't need to extend for shelter or things like that. So your bulkhead is going to start at the end of the existing host and simply you can go 6 to 8 inches in depending upon how long, how much grouting force we're expecting. And so your pipe can be right at the existing host. I think. I mean, that's I think. From a construction like Yeah. Well as far as how much room. Yeah I probably should I like I said, if we're dealing with 24 foot joints you're probably going to need 25 to 30 feet. If we get into where we need shorter, we can do typically a nine foot stick is kind of what we call our half length so we can do less. The lead time might be a little bit longer on that versus the 24 footers. But yeah, we'll work with we probably should mention that myself and and and Ryan who cover much the US for ESCO and then we've got a number of reps that's what we do we like to go out into the field. We like to go walk record, look at the culvert with you and figure out, is this a good fit for us? And if so, what are the things we need to be concerned about? So they'll give us an opportunity to to come look at it with you. I offer some insight, and maybe that works for you as far as figuring out if this is a good solution. But to parlay on that with our team, those of us with this go this, this is what we deal with every day. So we do have some expertise, but we have we have this network of independent sales reps and distributors we work with nationwide that are your local contacts. They can come out and do that and then they as well as some of our contacts from the from the installation side of it, our contractor relationships, we can we can definitely connect you with folks that could help determine all of the dynamics that will go into that particular construction site. All right. Got a question for Mr. Salt, and it's probably a great question. I think this is one that I'm going to let you guys reach out to. There's a lot to it. And one of the things is, is deformation of the pipe itself. And I know we manufactured both the oval pipe and things of that sort. I'm not 100% sure I get the question, but we'll have one of you guys reach out to this. Yeah, that's all good. I will take the opportunity. We didn't talk about over pipe. We you know, our pipe can be can be squashed and strutted. And that would certainly be if the host hostess is all or just a purely deflection state. The other the other dynamic is with round pipes that have been deformed on the inside or have some sort of dynamics to be very difficult to navigate or the flexible pipe that we have. We'll get through the pipe and we have a process called a nose cone or a bullet nose that can help navigate those undulations or those deflections to get the snap tight through that pipe. And I just realized, where does that? So he he goes in and does a 3D impression of the color and we see, you know, we would have to use an 18 inch liner for a 24 inch pipe. I'm making numbers off. Right. But if it's dropped down past that, can we get down to the next size available? I guess that would just be hydraulics and yes, certainly considering it hydraulics at and sometimes it may not be getting back to the original host. It may be just getting something that's good enough to allow us to do a rehab without digging up a road that's very inconvenient. Well, I can tell you three of our most volume, size and sales wise are 18, 20 and 22 because of 24 inch culverts. That's what's out there inside diameter, 24 inch culverts are by far the most. So so those are three sizes. So depending on the dynamics of the host, the hydraulic requirements and any three of those could work. All right. One more question. And again, thanks, everybody, for for or chiming in, ask a question that's certainly very helpful for us, for our team. But chief says, can you talk a little bit more about the ground? And I know there's lots of different recipes. I remember describing as a melted milkshake in some instances, depending on how much flow you need to get, how much void or unknown void, obviously. But can you can you expand a little bit on. Yeah, certainly we have to, Keith. I'll give you as much as I can in kind of a short frame here. But I mentioned that our design manual, technical God has a long chapter about the grouting. And grouting is something that people are curious about. So we recommend recommend Acellular Grout just because it's easy. FOIBLE It tends to find spaces. It creates a lot less demand than than regular grills. But, you know, there's a lot of people out there are using global fields, slurry mixes got to kind of be careful with that term. Neat mixes, things that have low aggregate. Typically you're just trying to get some sort of cement, just product in there that's going to set up and give you more compressive strength than than even the soil has. And that doesn't take very much. But typically that decision is going to be dependent upon the length of the culvert, how well it's going to flow from one end to the other, and then sometimes the indoor space and again, low aggregate, something that doesn't clog the tubes or or you may drill a hole, the core hole, the existing host poured in from the upstream and downstream. So a lot of that is addressed in our design guide and I think would be a great reference. And then we could follow up with additional questions there. Reach out to us and let us know what we didn't answer that absolutely feel.
It's right at 3:00 Eastern time. Thank you, guys very much. Thank you. For everyone who joined us. This presentation, as mentioned earlier on, the webinar is still that pipe backslash webinar will be available. So feel free to use this for an education for your teams and feel free to reach out to us. We have a whole team of sales guys that are educated on culvert inspections and come out and take a look at at your need and and the condition of of the of the hose pipe. We would help you with any specifications going forward. So we are here to help. I hope everyone who attended they got the education on culvert repair the need for a culvert repair replacement. There's multiple ideas on some other other products that are available. We just picked a few and hopefully we were we had enough information to share with you guys on some other technologies. SNAP site is the one that we live and breathe every day in polyethylene band and solid saltwater polyethylene. So thank you very much. Thanks for joining again. My my name is David Hung. I'm not sure that will allow me to come for the next one because this is my first one. But hopefully I did a good enough job to guide you guys through this presentation. Thanks and have a great rest of your day.